Briank
IDO Multi Media Sales Director
Reged: 09/02/02
Posts: 20717
Post Bucks: $2.80
Loc: Lakeland, MN
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Handgun for concealed personal protection?
Many people feel this "mouse gun" is cheaply made with a street (gun dealer) price around $230.00. In the .380 caliber many feel it's too small for personal protection.
Any KT owners out there?
Photo above is with Kel-tec's plus 1 extended magazine and nickle plated mag and slide.
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Brian Klawitter
In-Depth Outdoors Multi Media Director
Trophy Catfishing and Sturgeon Adventures
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Slop Bass
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Posts: 4807
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Loc: La Crosse, WI
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BrianK, is that your gun? You looking to sell it?
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"The Iaconelli of IDA"
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chriss
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Reged: 01/09/04
Posts: 1576
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Loc: Montrose Mn
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I don't know enough about the hand gun to say one way or the other.
But I have always felt that 380 is enough for personal protection. With this round you are less likely to have pass throughs and it's for more controlable if the wife needs to use it.
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Briank
IDO Multi Media Sales Director
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Posts: 20717
Post Bucks: $2.80
Loc: Lakeland, MN
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Sorry Slop...No sell...favorite 7 yard friend right now...
Chris...what about the wet leather jacket syndrome?
Short barrel, light caliber? Is it going to be enough?
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Brian Klawitter
In-Depth Outdoors Multi Media Director
Trophy Catfishing and Sturgeon Adventures
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Tagger
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Loc: Osseo, WI
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Briank, Could elaborate on the wet leather jacket syndrome, please.
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Stick Boy
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Loc: Plymouth MN.
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I have the kel-tec for conceal carry however I have the 9mm model. I think 380 is pleanty big it is basically a 9mm. I recomend getting the belt clip for the kel-tec works great to clip it to your pocket or on the inside of your pants.
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Jay Schuur - Schuur Handy Construction
Ph. 612-685-3566
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Briank
IDO Multi Media Sales Director
Reged: 09/02/02
Posts: 20717
Post Bucks: $2.80
Loc: Lakeland, MN
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Quite a bit of differance in a 9mm and a .380 stick! How's the P-11 working for you? Any failure to feeds/ejects?
The wet leather syndrome as I call it...is when a leather jacket is damp and at 10 yards a .32 won't penetrate it (no don't ask me to demonstate this!).
Is the 380 going to have the stopping power after making it through the jacket with the penitration that's needed to stop the attack?
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Brian Klawitter
In-Depth Outdoors Multi Media Director
Trophy Catfishing and Sturgeon Adventures
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Jon Jordan
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Posts: 5775
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Loc: St. Paul, Mn
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I also like the Kel-Tec 9mm for CC. Light, compact and cheap.
Have not had a single jam or miss-feed. Pretty happy with the gun.
-J.
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TheodoreNugget
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Reged: 12/30/05
Posts: 419
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Loc: Centerville, MN
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Buy a Kimber .45 ACP CDP Custom. 
I have carried a Beretta 84S in a .380 for several years. At the range, I've fired winchester FMJ in 90 grains without a misfire. Approximately 1500 rounds in it's life. I can only speak from classroom experience as I've never been in an actual shootout.. but theory...Most self defense shootings occur at close range and at night..
Regardless of caliber, make sure you have adequate "time on the water" shooting in low light conditions so when/if the time ever comes..you've rehearsed it well enough in your head to instinctively hit your target.
In terms of quality, I can only speak for my Beretta. It's a great gun but oddly enough it's got a mis-print in the side of it... "Does not fires without magazine" 
Enjoy ! Did I mention a Kimber ? 
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John
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chriss
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Posts: 1576
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Loc: Montrose Mn
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I can't say either way.(Wet Jacket)
All I know is that I have seen my ppks 380 penetrate a number of very tough items. We used to target shoot at a dump using old fridges and various objects as back stops.
Those were in diferent times and I wasn't always thinking straight. I wouldn't suggest using any of these objects for back stops to anyone!!!
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Jon Jordan
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Quote:
Buy a Kimber .45 ACP CDP Custom.
That's not my pick for CC, not even close. $2,000 + for a handgun that any over zealous cop can take from you, never to be seen again. No thanks!
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Jon Jordan
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Quote:
It's a great gun but oddly enough it's got a mis-print in the side of it... "Does not fires without magazine"
Pretty sure if you chamber a round and drop the magazine, that gun will not fire. There is a built in safty mechanism. I do not like that feature in a CC handgun. Actually, I don't like any kind of safty what so ever.
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TheodoreNugget
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$2000 ? I paid $945.00. I guess I got a good deal. I love a 1911 full frame for a carry gun. Had a Colt Commander before that. Tough to get away from once you get used to it. Being your from St Paul & I am too..I can relate to the over-zealous cops. I once had a St Paul cop threaten to take me to jail cause I wouldn't let him question my 5 year old about kicking in a garage door ? Go figure. That guy must have fallin asleep in his psych class. Any .380 is a decent caliber for self defense. More important is being able to hit your target. Seems to be posted as the minimal off duty caliber for some law enforcement agencies. First person with $400 & a permit to purchase can have my Beretta..I'm looking for a magnum revolver to shoot animals instead of people anyway.
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John
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Jon Jordan
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Loc: St. Paul, Mn
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I'll admit I didn't look up the price for that model Kimber, but we both know many of the customs are in the $2000 price range. Sounds like you got a deal.
Full frame 1911 too big and heavy for me. But each to his own.
Speaking of Magnum revolvers, have you checked out the new S&W .500 revolver? Gander Mtn in Woodbury has one in the case for a little under $900. Beautiful 50 cal hand cannon indeed...you gotta drive over there and check it out.
-J.
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TheodoreNugget
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Did someone say trip to Gander ? Ok, you talked me into it. I'm there 
I've heard of the 500 & seen it ! It's fasinating but never shot one. Looks so huge I thought it was a novelty at first. I think Smith is also trying to introduce something called a Model 460XVR ? I don't know any details but some type of "step up" from the 627 & a frame size smaller then the 500.
Along the way to Gander, I'll hit Wolfs Den in Hugo, Joe's Sporting Goods in Roseville, Guitar Center since I'm in the area  Then I'll hit Fleet farm has spinnerbaits on sale as always for $1.79 - Thin wired but ya know... I guy can never have enough buzzbaits.
Geezus ! I'm a kid in a candy store
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John
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Chris Tuckner
IDA Pro Staff Director
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It is better than not having anything at all. Kinetic energy is what you need to create hydrostatic shock. That is what you could interpret as "Stopping Power." The more KE and the more HSS you have, the more potent the round is on a object or subject. For personal protection, I would rate them .45 (If you can tolerate weight and bulk) the .40 and 9mm, and then the .380. As Jon Jordan says, a 22 hollow point can do some damage! But I think when you get down below a .32, you lose that bone breaking/shattering power, and move more into deflection of the bullets when they come into contact with bones. The .45 had long been a favorite of the marines because of battles fought against the Japanese. Standard issue was at that time a .38 K frame. The Japanese would tie off limbs with rope, and get drunk of their gourde on Saki, and charge US troops. Close combat, knives against .38's. The .38 proved ineffective against these waves of human sacrifices. Enter the .45 ACP. When you were hit by this round, YOU STAYED HIT! The old joke was "You could hit a guy in the thumb, and take his whole arm off!"
Now, is your wife/daughter/girlfriend going to carry one? Nah...But a .380 will hurt or deter an attacker. It would me! It may be just enough to get the job done when needed.
Tuck
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Chris Tuckner
www.idaguides.com
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JoePenaz
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Loc: 8775 Airport Rd, Waconia mn 55...
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According to the FBI Student Training report on pistol ballistics. Knock down power is a myth. They prove it with the pendulum test and further prove it with Newton’s Law. For ever action there is an opposite and equal reaction. In order for you to knock me down with a bullet shot from your gun it would have to knock me down the opposite direction. I will further make my point: I have shot several 160+ lb deer running at or slightly away and towards me with my 338 Winchester Mag. 275 grain bullet over 2 times the velocity of a pistol with same weight bullet. No deer to date has stopped, flipped over or jumped up and or flew back as in the movies. They actually kept coming forward and or in some cases kept on running for a while. So if you think you can carry something in your pocket that is better than my Glock 26 9mm or my kel-teck 380 you got to prove it to me. I have carried a gun for over 25 years, all I want is a gun that I can hit with (first and foremost) And for you 40 s&w in a sub compact gun guys, go shoot double and triple taps once and you will see why most police dept including Brooklyn park will not allow off duty cops to carry glock 27. They can’t hit with follow up shot’s because of recoil. If you can’t hit with, it does not matter if you carry a 338 Mag! Next I want something I can hide and is light. If it is uncomfortable to carry and hide you will not carry it long term.
The French police have carried the .380 with great success and have proven its ranking as a man stopper.
If you want to argue this with me I want facts not myth. Most of you who carry will not shot enough not to be a threat to any one near who you shoot at. (most shoot less than half as much as police officers , and they miss 53%) So please do not get caught up in the I have to have knock down power trap. Get the gun you can shoot the best with,3 380’s in the chest is better than one hit and 2 misses in most bigger calibers. Multiple wound channels kill fastest. This is a fact more holes to bleed from.
If I told you I will give you $10,000 dollars to the best group at 21 feet would you use your Glock 27 40 S&W or my 22LR auto? Give some though to this.
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Joe Penaz
Edited by JoePenaz (01/09/06 05:39 PM)
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Jon Jordan
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Quote:
If I told you I will give you $10,000 dollars to the best group at 21 feet would you use your Glock 27 40 S&W or my 22LR auto? Give some though to this.
Great post and I agree with evey thing you wrote. I'll take the 22LR.
-J.
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JoePenaz
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Loc: 8775 Airport Rd, Waconia mn 55...
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Thanks , I need to add one more thing from the same report(FBI) the only sure way to stop some one for sure is with a shot that will cut the spine at or around the neck and or a head shot to the brain. One more reason to be able to shoot really well and to practice. (most do not) they only talk about it or put it on their to do list.
I sell the Beam Hit Personal Laser training system. go to my site HTTP://WWW.CONCEALCARRY.NET and look at it. You can get so good so fast for so little with your gun. Teach your wife to shoot with it and she will not have a problem with the small cost.
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Joe Penaz
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James Holst
IDA Pro Staff & Admin
Reged: 04/30/01
Posts: 13329
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Loc: SE Minnesota
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Myth Busters did a neat piece on "knock-down" power.
They tested a full torso made of ballistics gelatin and hung that torso from a hook. No matter what they shot it with, handguns, shotguns and various rifles, they couldn't even get the torso to swing to the slightest degree.
When they went smaller and shot melons what they found was that melons "jump" toward the shooter and do not fly violent away upon impact. The reason the targets moved towards the shooter was as the bullet passed through the object the "insides" expanded violently under pressure out the exit hole resulting in the object shot to actually move toward the shooter. They compared it to a little jet nozzle of goo! 
Regardless... I still don't want to get shot, even if I won't go flying through a plate glass window or wall like you see in the movies.
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James Holst - In-Depth Outdoors TV Host
IDA Guides Guide Service
Ph. 507-271-0362
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