Slop Bass
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As expected, Doyle had Vetoed the WI Conceal/Carry Bill.
This time we have the votes in the senate to over ride that Veto.... 
I don't want to start a political battle....but I hope this get's passed...as it's about time WI catch up with the other 40 Some states that allow this. 
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"The Iaconelli of IDA"
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Marty28
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I totally agree!!
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Remember: "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to ask for permission"
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EyeJacker
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Doyle's veto was a certainty, I believe an override by the legislative body is highly probable this time around and as a rejoiner, I'll predict the voters will veto Doyle!
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Will-eye
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How is this law a good thing for our state? I'm not saying it isn't, but I'm just not familiar with all of the facets of the bill.
What are the restrictions? I'm hoping I won't have kids and parents packing heat at my school.
CR
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EyeJacker
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Quote:
How is this law a good thing for our state? I'm not saying it isn't, but I'm just not familiar with all of the facets of the bill.
What are the restrictions? I'm hoping I won't have kids and parents packing heat at my school.
CR
If the bill patterns MN, schools will be a no carry zone and teachers will remain the only faction armed with a more potentially dangerous weapon, which is, of course, political activism! It should be added that, in either situation, because they are packin' doesn't mean they will "draw" on it! Also, it should be noted, that if they are so inclined (i.e. the hardware packers), the law will not stop them, but rather be used to prosecute them, which is exactly the way it is now! It is like this post, although Slop Bass teed it up, I did not have to respond to it, but chose to! Not sure of what the restrictions are/should be for classroom activism. Hanging comes to mind!  Moral: The pen is mightier than the sword, and much more insidious!
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gunflint
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And there's always that pesky little issue about returning rights guarenteed by the second ammendment to the constitution. 
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"You shouldn't stop stupid people from doing stupid things. That's how you know who they are." Ted Nugent
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Wade Joseph
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I just can't seem to figure out why anyone would want to prevent good, honest, law abiding citizens with no criminal record from carrying a firearm..... They don't seem to prevent the criminals from carrying them.
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Jeff Krisik
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What I find funny, it seems that it is a status thing for someone to be "packing heat." As most know in here I'm a law enforcement officer against this bill. The thing is how may of you here think you would be able to draw a gun and point it at someone? How many think they could pull the trigger? Taking someone's life is very serious. I've had my gun pulled a lot of times and have no problem to shoot if the threat is there. I know several officers that I don't even know if they could pull the trigger if need be. Plus if you have your gun pulled or intend to use it you better be aware of the consequences...some of the possible violations if you are wrong and have your gun out and if you do use it: 941.20(1)(a)or(c) Endangering safety by use of Dangerous Weapon, Class A Misdemeanor; Second-Degree intentional Homicide, Class B Felony.(This one would be if there were mitigating circumstances, which most would say there were)
Lastly...A lot don't realize having that weapon now makes you a target for a "bad guy." They don't have a gun know you do...they manage to either disarm you, or they break into your car or house where you left it, Example only and probable situation. You have your weapon on you and forget, and you want to stop with the guys and have a beer. You take it out of your holster and put it under your seat or in your glove box. Someone gets into your car and now has your gun...they are out on the street with it and kill someone...guess who's responsible. Or You are on the street and get disarmed...they don't turn the weapon on you but flee...now again a weapon is on the street that didn't need to be.
I just thought I would let eveyone think about these situations. The carrying of a weapon is a huge reponsibility and needs to be taken seriously...trust me I even know law enforcement officers that shouldn't have one. If it passes use your heads and know what your capabel of.
I know I'll get blasted here about this, but so be it.  Everyone has an opionion. 
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Jeff "Krisko" Krisik~In-Depthangling Field Staff
Chilson Chrysler Dodge/
Gamehide Outdoor Wear
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Redneck
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Krisko, I respect your opinion and I sure hope you don't get attacked because of it.
I am hesitant to post at all on this but I can't help myself. I took the class in Minnesota and I can tell you that as much of the class is on the legal issues as anything else. We were taught that if you pull your weapon you should immediately call your lawyer even if the other person were to flee. My lawyer is now programmed into my phone. The instructors pounded it into our heads that drawing a weapon is a last alternative and should be avoided at all costs. I swear after the class you have a new found fear of the consequences of weapon possession.
As to why anyone would want a weapon I guess it comes down to :I carry a spare tire and a first aid kit and hope I NEVER have to use them too but if the need should arise it is better to have them than not.
My Instructor for the course was a Deputy Sheriff for a rural Minnesota county and he had no concerns about an armed law abiding population.
I would ask this of you Krisko, please keep an open mind if it passes and I think you will be pleasantly surprised. There won't be any more kooks running around with guns because they won't put up the money or time to get the permit. You won't have to deal with any gun permit issues because the people who will apply for these permits are law abiding citizens who are exercising their second amendment right. If you ever get the chance, sit in on one of the classes. They address many of the issues that concern you in a way you might just approve of.
That's my 2 cents worth and I'm done on this subject.
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Wade Joseph
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Not gonna blast you brother, but the criminals ALREADY have them on the streets. As for being able to shoot someone. I am almost certain if someone was threatening me or my loved ones, I could not only shoot them, but no ambulance would be needed, just the coroner. You have some valid points, but one could provide just as many to counter them.
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EyeJacker
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Krisko, I agree with much of what you said here. Anybody, policemen included, that has a gun whether it is carried or in the home, car or elsewhere is sudject to have the gun taken away or stolen. They also have the opportunity to protect themselves which the unarmed do not. I also believe the bad guys will always have their guns regardless of the law.
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Don Hanson
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enough said!
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Don Hanson, www.hjioutdoors.net
Minn Kota Promotional Team
In-Depthangling Pro-Staff
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jwellsy
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Krisco, has there been any studies that CC increases the gun theft rate? It sounds like thats your main objection. You do raise some worthwhile discussion points.
One time years ago in Homestead FL while on vacation with out of state plates we were in a kmart parking lot and a car full of thugs was threatening my family and I pulled my .45, made sure a round was chambered, and sat it on my lap without showing it to them. Fortunately a parking lot security guy saw what was going on, pulled up behind them,
turned on his flashers on top and started talking on his radio. The security guy never got out of his car. We had kind of a three way standoff. Finally the thugs left.
For the next several nights I had nightmares that it had turned out differently. Could I have pulled the trigger if it came to it? You bet! Could I still do it? You bet! Do I understand the gravity of that split second motion of a trigger pull? You bet I do! Is my families safety worth possible incarceration and endless paperwork to me? You bet!
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Will-eye
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After thinking about this a bit more, I worry that this law may make it easier for handguns to get in the hands of the wrong people. In general, I'm not worried about the gun owner who applies for a permit and takes the necessary courses to allow him/her to carry. Like Krisko said, this law may bring more guns out into the public where they may be lost or stolen and then get into the hands of someone who is not careful, moral, or law-abiding. Criminals will get their guns no matter what the law is, but will this make more guns available to them?
I'm also leery about the hot-head with a carry permit just looking for a time and place to use it.
Anyone know of any gun accident/violence studies from the other states who do have carry laws?
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EyeJacker
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Quote:
enough said!
I like it, yes indeed!
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Jeff Krisik
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Loc: Chippewa Falls, WI
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jwellsy, no my objective isn't theft of the weapon it is like Willeye said, this has the potenial to put more weapons on the steet that wouldn't be there otherwise. Criminals WILL ALWAYS get the guns no matter what, by whatever means they want.
I don't know if I understand you totally on your problem in the Kmart lot. Why didn't you put your car in reverse or drive and get out of there? What makes you better than any other thug on the street flashing a gun? Where they armed?
In Wisconsin we have a Force Option Continuim for law enforcement that gives us different levels for the tools we have. I can't pull my weapon as an officer just because there is a crowd of people who I consider thugs around me. I guess if they were armed with a dangerous weapon that is a little different. Like I said I don't know the situation.
Going back to the guy doing the hold up in the T-shirt. Are you really going to pull your weapon and shoot him? First most robberies the person, especially if they are, concealing their identity, takes the money and leaves. Second...you pull your pistol he has a SHOTGUN...I doubt he has slugs either. Chances are as an ununiformed person you will be shot and killed. BEING A HERO ISN'T worth it.
Back to the message earlier. Yes I've been to these classes for conceal and carry. Did it ease my worries or make me think different about the conceal and carry situation? Some...but there isn't nearly enough training. A lot of police and even military personel have a hard enough time pulling the trigger because the absolutly have to, to protect themselves much less their family members. If you don't have that gun you probably won't put yourself into situations you would need to worry about. Like I said I know you are all for this...and that is fine.
I know our tactics and policies will have to be seriously gone over if it happens. Our Sheriff's Association has talked to other agencies where this bill is passed and there are many things that have to change. Plus now because I see a gun on a seat of a car or on a dash I have a split second decision to think, pull my gun he's a threat, don't pull my gun it's only Eyejacker going fishing and forgot to put it away, run for the hills, ect....(by the way Eyejacker only an example  ) If I'm wrong, I can get shot, nothing will happen, or get sued because I pulled my weapon and knew he was a conceal carry person and should have known he wouldn't have killed me. My job is bad enough with the bad guys with guns, I don't want innocent people with them maybe playing hero.
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Jeff "Krisko" Krisik~In-Depthangling Field Staff
Chilson Chrysler Dodge/
Gamehide Outdoor Wear
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jwellsy
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Krisco, part of my family was inside the Kmart and it doesn't matter if you think I'm a thug too.
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Slop Bass
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Quote:
What makes you better than any other thug on the street flashing a gun
Easy....He's got the gun for the right reasons and not for breaking the law. That what makes him better.
Quote:
My job is bad enough with the bad guys with guns, I don't want innocent people with them maybe playing hero
No offense Kriso, but If there's a split decision to be made where my life is on the line, I don't want to have to wait for you to show up.
What's your argument against the facts that the other 40 some states that already have this law in place don't have the problems of increased crime?
Your concerns are honorable...but you already go in each situation not knowing if somebody has a gun...I don't see where anything changes on your part. YOu mentioned before about walking up on EyeJacker (example) and see a gun on his dash. Well, provided EyeJacker obtained his gun lawfully, you would know upon running a background check. While you will still take caution, at least you know he obtained it lawfully.
Trust me, I hear and respect your concerns, but they've all proven not to be issues once this law is passed.
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"The Iaconelli of IDA"
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EyeJacker
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Krisco, with all due respect, all of your arguments have been offered up by anti-gun groups ad-inifitum. The reality is there are very few facts to support your concerns. Your implication that if you carry a concealed weapon you are going to seek out trouble is ungrounded. The notion that we are a bunch of cowboys just waiting for an opportunity to branish a weapon is sheer folly. I find it discerning, to say the least, that you believe there are police oficers, chartered to protect an serve, that may be unable to draw their weapons in a time of crisis. I agree that to draw your gun, regarless of the situation, will in all probability have legal consequenses. I also respect your concerns, after this bill passes which it eventually will, I believe you will discover that your worries were unfounded! 
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ERonningen
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I am neutral on this subject. We have the option in MN to carry. I have chosen not to even though I own many hand guns. I keep them in my home. I would not hesistate in my home to use one if need be, say breaking and entering and being cornered. Thats a no brainer.
I chose not to carry or keep guns in my trucks because I don't want to deal with any consequences first off. I, like many I'm sure, could be a little too easy to be provoked into pulling a weapon and going off. I know it is not the best choice for me. Secondly, I live in a town of roughly 100,000 people. So thats a fair sized city, but its not Compton. Meaning I can very easily avoid problem areas if there is such areas. I would first drive away from a problem, walk away, give them what little cash I have on me, or just defend myself the way I know best, with my own self.
I know a handful of guys that went out and got their permits as soon as they could. Then after them carrying their guns for awhile they realized they had already lived how many years of their life and have never had a problem where they would have needed a gun, they got their ego kick for awhile and decided to hang it up. Don't take offense to the last sentence, I am only qouting my friends.
So, while it may work for some, it may not work for others. Doesn't matter to me either way, just thought I would throw out the "is it really necessary" scenario. Don't drill me. I AM NUETRAL
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