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311Hemi
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Reged: 11/21/04
Posts: 40
Post Bucks: $1.24
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Steve, thanks for the response. I was not trying to call you out and had no issues with your post. Was just looking for clarification on some of the things you said. What was mentioned in your post that described what you want/don't want in foods is just touching the tip of what people should be looking into.....and I would strongly recommend people do their own research and find what fits for them and their dogs. There's much more to it than what has been briefly covered here....as you know.
As far the the "meals" in dog food. My research has lead me to believe that "meals" (Chicken meal, lamb meal) are certainly what you would want provided as a main ingredient in a good food (first ingredients listed on label, order determined by weight prior to processing). You can have this followed by or previous to something like "Chicken" for example, but the main thing to know with that is that chicken meal has more available protein source than something like "chicken". Chicken listed as a primary ingredient includes water weight (as labeling amount is concerned), there fore once dried it's actually less amount of available protein source. I don't believe Meat and bone meal to be of as good of protein source as chicken meal or lamb meal. Is there info somewhere that says they are comparable?
I can certainly can appreciate the situation you, or anyone else owning a number of dogs is in that needs to find a food to work for all your dogs. It can't be easy...or cheap. I have had to go through multiple foods because of allergies with one dog....and I just got a new pup recently so I am feeding two different foods. I can't imagine 5-6+!
As far as my post to Don....I guess he would need to specify how he actually hunts his dogs and let everyone compare to their style of hunting. Everyone obviously hunts differently, and different game. I still have a hard time believing the majority working dog (sled dogs, coon, bear, bird, etc) that is out working all day long, many days during a season would not lose any weight by decreasing calorie intake by 25% in the middle of the season. But...as we know each individual dog is different and obviously Don's dog does well on it.
Each of these situations can be much different.....so I just don't want people to read something and think they should automatically do the same thing and then wonder why their dog is getting so skinny. I would like to believe the majority would not do this and would notice if something was not working for their dog.....but there's so many opinions out there it seems some could easily just try to do what they read without thinking about it in any detail.
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Don Hanson
IDA Pro-Staff
Reged: 08/26/02
Posts: 2021
Post Bucks: $4.70
Loc: Wisconsin
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Myself and two other trainers I am in contact with and have worked with use this program. I don't want to take credit for devolping it because through research I have read about others doing it. I just can't remember who! I will try to find some onfo on it when I have some time. I am glad you are concerned about someone trying the program without thought. I usually put in my post to contact me about any program members are interested in. Sorry I did not do that this time.
I have not had a dog lose an amount of weight that would be a concern on this program. My two dogs do not vary more than a 1/4 lb. They run the same training program and hunt the same amount. Do they get fed the same amount? I still make the 25% cut during the season. They however do not start at the same amount. During the hunting season both dogs are in the field the same amount of time. Their needs are much differnt though. Dog #1 hunts at a much faster pace and holds that pace all day. Dog #2 at this point is less efficient in covering ground. He works at a slower pace but is putting more mile on. But because of his slower pace, he burns less energy. Thus as I am building into this program, his ration of food is less. Like you said, it depends on the individual dog.
I factor in genetics, fitness level, fat %, size and age of the dog when it comes to nutrition. Next, is the dog a backyarder, a weekender, or an everydayer. If I am training a backyarder or everydayer, I will start with their normal amount of food and then up it 25% as I start training. Keep in mind that besides demands of training, he is getting 5 miles of road work a day. When thet are back with the owner and ready for hunting, they can be cut back that 25%. The everydayer is on a little different program. These are the dog that are in the field everyday during hunting season and are road working and training everyday in the off season. With the everydayer, I will start with the maintence program. This is the amount of food deemed nessesary for overall health. Next I will go into the preseason training, usually months before hunting season. This is where I will increase the food 25% to cover the demand. Now as the hunting season begins the dogs digestive system is more efficient. This is where I cut back the 25%. After the season, I will slowly increase the amount back up to maintience level.
My dogs and the ones I have trained all have maintained well with this program. These are upland retrievers, just to clarify.
-------------------- Don Hanson, www.hjioutdoors.net
Minn Kota Promotional Team
In-Depthangling Pro-Staff
Edited by Don Hanson (11/13/08 11:16 AM)
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311Hemi
Member
Reged: 11/21/04
Posts: 40
Post Bucks: $1.24
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Quote:
Next, is the dog a backyarder, a weekender, or an everydayer. If I am training a backyarder or everydayer, I will start with their normal amount of food and then up it 25% as I start training. Keep in mind that besides demands of training, he is getting 5 miles of road work a day. When thet are back with the owner and ready for hunting, they can be cut back that 25%. The everydayer is on a little different program. These are the dog that are in the field everyday during hunting season and are road working and training everyday in the off season. With the everydayer, I will start with the maintence program. This is the amount of food deemed nessesary for overall health. Next I will go into the preseason training, usually months before hunting season. This is where I will increase the food 25% to cover the demand. Now as the hunting season begins the dogs digestive system is more efficient. This is where I cut back the 25%. After the season, I will slowly increase the amount back up to maintience level.
My dogs and the ones I have trained all have maintained well with this program. These are upland retrievers, just to clarify.
Don, thanks for the clarification. If I am understanding you correctly I think the first part of what you posted makes more sense...especially the fact that some of these dogs may be with you and getting roaded (in addition to training)while they are with you, and then once back with a backyarder or weekender owner I have to believe their not getting that same amount of exercise every day.
Is this understanding more in line with your process?
I still can't wrap my mind around an everyday'r being able to cut back 25% during hunting season.....but I guess I will do some more research on that and see what I can find out about calorie intake once the dog is hunting fit.
Good looking pups....they definitly look fit...too bad they are the wrong color!!
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MossBoss
Member
Reged: 06/08/01
Posts: 2095
Post Bucks: $3.86
Loc: La Crosse, WI
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Anyone feed Diamond Naturals?
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Caincando1
Member
Reged: 11/12/04
Posts: 98
Post Bucks: $1.64
Loc: Dodge Center, MN/Alma,WI
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I was feeding Canidae to all my dogs, running hounds(yote dogs) and terriers(cab dogs). Last fall Canidae switched their ingredients and I noticed the dogs losing weight and generally being more hungry. I've now switched them to Eagle Pack Original. It's doing okay for the time being but I'm still in search for other options that aren't a small fortune but still high quality. IMHO I'm convinced that Raw and BARF diets are the best way to feed K-9's. I haven't switched yet, but I'm working out the sources and process, especially for my running hounds. Realistically when you look at how much dog food is per lb and how much filler is in some of it, you can buy human grade meat for that much and scraps and droppings for far less.
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