Kooty
Site Guardian - Gold
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Loc: 1 hour 15 mins to the Pond
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Ragerunner's comment in the poaching thread got me to thinking. When is poaching not really poaching? The other day a pro golfer disqualified himself for using a non-authorized ball on one hole. Integrity? Did he know right away and his conscience got the best of him? Maybe a poor analogy...
To me the basic word "poaching" means to take a game animal out of season or over your limit. As we all know, this is a state regulated/managed activity they are kind enough to allow us to take part in. Does the state really own that deer?
Let's say I'm a land owner of, oh, 1000 acres. Let's also assume my land has an average deer population for the state of MN. I plant my crops each spring and the deer live off that food source much of year. Times are a bit tough this year. Corn prices are down, fertilizer was up, diesel was up. I'm probably just making my payments, if I can even make them this year.
I decide I'm gonna feed my family on some venison this year instead of beef. I head out to my field and shoot a nice fat doe. We butcher her up and eat good for a few months. Freezer starts running low, I head back to the field and get another deer. Same scenario plays out until spring when the bank will loan me more operating capital.
Am I a poacher? Would you turn me in??
I've had long conversations with family/friends who are land owners who house and feed the deer year round, only to be told what/when they can hunt them by the state. And pay to have the priveledge. It's an interesting conversation with a few of them. 
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I was born in the 70's, grew up in 80's, made my mistakes in 90's now I'm just trying to make up for lost time.
John
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Riveratt
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Loc: Central Wisconsin US-of-A
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It is very simple in my eyes. If times are hard, and they most certainly are for some, and they take a few extra fish or a deer because they can't afford enough food otherwise I'm fine with it. If they have a couple freezers full, a nice selection of beef and pork, and were taking extra fish or deer then I'm not so understanding.
Bottom line for me is a person has to feed the family. There is no way I could condemn someone that can prove hardship for taking and using game. But to cut the antlers off and leave the rest lay? Prepare for my foot to be broke off in your a...Well you know! 
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Most of my life has been spent fishing.The rest of it I just wasted.
If I'm not fishing, hunting, or ATVing, you can bet I'm wishing I was!
Control your kids, not my guns!
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John R
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Loc: LaCrosse Wi
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I always thought they should be able to take deer from their property. But I would hope they would do it like you mentioned, for the meat. Not just because there was crop damage. Then they should get the permits.
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mallard_militia
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Loc: Byron, MN
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I'd be interested to see how the results would look on a "Poll".
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Never take life too seriously.
Nobody gets out alive anyway.
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Gobbler
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Loc: Central, MN
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first off.... i think this is a great topic.
I personally have a hard time w/ guys who say they are hunting to put food on the table and take "wild game" w/o putting a tag on the animal or put more fish in the freezer then allowed. Bag limits are set for a reason....
TO PROTECT THE RESOURCE!!!
fortuanately, i haven't been in a situation where i would consider taking game illegally to feed the family. I work (1) full time job and (2) part time jobs in order for my wife and i to live comfortably. She also works a full time job. And together we scratch our pennies at times to make things work…. it’s called sacrifice. Hell, I was only able to ice fish 1 time all of last winter (January 1st) and my first day off w/o out having to work at 1 of my 3 jobs this year was February 24th (my B-day). Did I want to fish and hunt more? Of course I did. but, in order to make ends meet? I had to work.
I think that the people who have the time to shoot deer, small game, etc illegally or out of season.... and also have the time to keep more then there limit of fish should use that "time" to work a job and put food on the table.
I know times get tough and there may seem like there isn't any other way for some people to put food on the table. but i firmly believe that individuals who choose to live a life style of shooting deer out of season do it because of their work ethic and are trying to do things the easy way. I say man up and follow the LAW!
I want to go on and on… but, it will only get me more frustrated. Plus, I can’t and won’t tell someone they are living there life wrong. They are their own person and can make their own decisions. If shooting deer to put food on the table is the only option, i won't stop them.
In reality, they are just like me, I just choose to work several jobs to make ends meet instead of spending time doing something I love, like hunt & fish. Maybe my priorities are “whacked” but I sure do like knowing and feeling that I worked hard for what I have and did all I could to make ends meet w/o breaking the law.... jmo
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ERonningen
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Loc: Rochester, MN
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The state doesn't own the deer, the people do. I guess the state manage them.
I say just simply go buy the tags and do it right.
BTW, I don't feel sorry for the farmer that has 100-5000 acres, a bunch of machinery, and gets gov. help.
I get kicks out of hearing people move from the city into a more rural setting and to peeved about the deer eating there scrubs and flowers they plant. Can't have the best of both life stlyes.
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vikefanmn77
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Loc: Northfield,MN
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Picking and choosing the laws we abide by is a slippery slope to anarchy.
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RageRunner
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Loc: Winona, MN
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In my head, if a landowner/farmer what's to kill a deer to eat, they should be able to do that whenever they want, regardless of it's size or sex. I don't agree with shooting a deer to let it rot or just for the rack. I myself, would only try to shoot does to eat, but having not been in a survival situation, I am not one to speak.
I do have one proposal...If farmers must abide by the same rules as other hunters, then the DNR/Gov't should pay the farmers that grow crops for the deer!
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phishirman
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Loc: Madison, WI
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amen Gobbler. And while I can't condemn anyone who has fallen on hard times and took an extra deer to put food on the table, because I have felt that same desperation, I think there are better ways than breaking the law to feed the family. Besides that, what sort of morals would the person in question be instilling into his or her children???
no offense, but I say man up and get another job,poacher. 
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big G
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Loc: St. Cloud, MN USA
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I can see where this sounds good, I own the land, I fed the deer.... but if there was something like this, it would be abused so bad, it would decimate hunting for everyone, IMHO. Believe me, there are plenty of "poachers" in MN that take deer year round to consume. The Long Prairie area has some Amish/Mennonites living nearby, that do not practice any kind of "season" so to speak. The DNR knows it, but does little to curb it.....
big G
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Steve Plantz
IDA Field Staff - Steering Committee
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Posts: 10205
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Loc: SE MN
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Quote:
I can see where this sounds good, I own the land, I fed the deer.... but if there was something like this, it would be abused so bad, it would decimate hunting for everyone, IMHO. Believe me, there are plenty of "poachers" in MN that take deer year round to consume. The Long Prairie area has some Amish/Mennonites living nearby, that do not practice any kind of "season" so to speak. The DNR knows it, but does little to curb it.....
big G
I agree with G, if there was something like this there would be too many that abuse it. We all probably know someone who is out of work and could use the food on the table, MN offers allot of bonus tags in different areas so if you have an opportunity to take an extra deer or two go for it and help out a family in need. If you do not know anyone who could use the helping hand you can donate to the venison donation program and all it will cost you is the price of the tag, something for MN hunters to keep in mind when you head out to the field this weekend. I can not think of a better way to help a family in need. 
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Steve Plantz ~ IDO Field Staff
Bluffland Whitetails Association
To Let-em Grow You Gotta Let-em Go So SHOOT A DOE!!!
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Chris Tuckner
IDA Pro Staff Director
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Loc: Hastings/Isle MN
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It's hard to say what is "Right" or "Wrong" unless you are faced with the situation yourself. At that time, you are the only one that can make that decision. Back in the 70's my Dad faced that very situation. He was unemployed and down on his luck. And I remember him going into the woods to do just that. He did not get anything...and the situation eventually corrected itself. But I remember how he agonized over having to do that. That was as tough a time as I can ever remember in our lives growing up. In a situation like that, I can not condemn the action or the person. But they have to make that decision.
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Chris Tuckner
www.idaguides.com
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wishiniwasfishin
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Tough subject, I agree that picking and choosing laws to live by is a slippery slope. That being said, in the area that I hunt, there is an old boy that we are pretty sure does just that. If a deer happens to come into his woods and he needs food it's down. We don't have proof of this and we are not going looking for any.
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Riveratt
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Loc: Central Wisconsin US-of-A
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It's very easy, it seems, to armchair quarterback this topic. "Just get a job" is so much easier said than done sometimes but I don't think some people know the true feeling or meaning of desperation.
The question was "when is poaching not poaching". By definition the answer, obviously, it never. I think what the OP is asking is when is it ok to harvest a deer out of season. And that answer to me is when you have no other choice. As easy as it is to say "just go buy a tag and be legal" or "man up and get a job" I can assure you that isn't always possible. For one do people only become hard up around the 3rd week of November? No. If it is July and your hungry guess what? No tags can be bought for any price. Ever try to take a job with somebody that isn't hiring? It doesn't work! Case in point. We moved to a new town about 4 years ago. For the first year the wife didn't have a job. Oh she filled in at the high school a couple times and even for two in home day care ladies but she simply couldn't get a job. No one was hiring. Now we were not starving but having gone through that I can easily see the other side of the picture.
I grew up on a farm. The last farm my folks bought was purchased January 1st 1979. For anyone that was alive and at least 10-12 years old they likely remember what happened in the early and mid 80's. Imagine having just bought a $200,000 dollar farm then 3 years later the interest on the loan quadruples, land value falls to less than half, and the bank wants larger payments. Guess what? The "man up" phrase is worth its weight in toilet paper! Just thinking back on those times and that phrase makes my blood a bit warm. Imagine sitting at an empty dinner table and telling your three kids "well kids as soon as deer season rolls around we can eat again". Until you've been in those shoes I don't think you have much basis to tell others they are doing wrong by feeding their family.
We ate venison a lot in those days. And guess what? The deer herd is so much larger today than then it is ridiculous! So while taking a deer (or fish) out of season is illegal regardless please understand that there are times it simply has to be done.
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Most of my life has been spent fishing.The rest of it I just wasted.
If I'm not fishing, hunting, or ATVing, you can bet I'm wishing I was!
Control your kids, not my guns!
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mossydan
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Loc: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
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If a farmers feeding the herd and hes down on his luck then its time for the deer to feed him, I don't think theres anything wrong with taking a deer or two including a couple turkeys. Until he gets back on his feet things are going to be rough and uncomfortable and hungry stomachs aren't nice or do they feel good. Yes they can get some help but at times there isn't enough to fill the stomach everyday. Taking a deer just because he can and when theres food in the cupboards just because he likes the taste of venison is diffrent. This guys trying to feed his family so they can stay healthy. To me thats what thier there for even though theres regualtions and seasons. I don't think theres anything wrong with it if he was trying to feed his family, poaching and over limits is diffrent.
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AmWatson
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Quote:
It's very easy, it seems, to armchair quarterback this topic. "Just get a job" is so much easier said than done sometimes but I don't think some people know the true feeling or meaning of desperation.
The question was "when is poaching not poaching". By definition the answer, obviously, it never. I think what the OP is asking is when is it ok to harvest a deer out of season. And that answer to me is when you have no other choice. As easy as it is to say "just go buy a tag and be legal" or "man up and get a job" I can assure you that isn't always possible. For one do people only become hard up around the 3rd week of November? No. If it is July and your hungry guess what? No tags can be bought for any price. Ever try to take a job with somebody that isn't hiring? It doesn't work! Case in point. We moved to a new town about 4 years ago. For the first year the wife didn't have a job. Oh she filled in at the high school a couple times and even for two in home day care ladies but she simply couldn't get a job. No one was hiring. Now we were not starving but having gone through that I can easily see the other side of the picture.
I grew up on a farm. The last farm my folks bought was purchased January 1st 1979. For anyone that was alive and at least 10-12 years old they likely remember what happened in the early and mid 80's. Imagine having just bought a $200,000 dollar farm then 3 years later the interest on the loan quadruples, land value falls to less than half, and the bank wants larger payments. Guess what? The "man up" phrase is worth its weight in toilet paper! Just thinking back on those times and that phrase makes my blood a bit warm. Imagine sitting at an empty dinner table and telling your three kids "well kids as soon as deer season rolls around we can eat again". Until you've been in those shoes I don't think you have much basis to tell others they are doing wrong by feeding their family.
We ate venison a lot in those days. And guess what? The deer herd is so much larger today than then it is ridiculous! So while taking a deer (or fish) out of season is illegal regardless please understand that there are times it simply has to be done.
I couldn't have said it any better 
Sometimes I think people live in a bubble. Sure their lives are goinggreat with a great job, nice house, etc...
But, there are places other than MN or WI where things are really tight.
I have distant family members in Utah and Montana, who have at times "lived off the land" for a few years. I don't look down on them for doing what they feel is necessary. Who am I to judge them?
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Fur count 2008
Rats-0
Coon-Not accomplished enough to catch thousands of coon.
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Ferny
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Loc: Stillwater, MN
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Now that Obama's in there's no worries right? 
Just kidding of course I just couldn't resist.
Honestly, those days are over in my opinion!
There are so many govt and private organizations there to help it's not funny. If you go hungry or need any necessities all you have to do is ask or look.
Dail 211, churches, shelters, United Way, Salvation Army, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts... lets face it this is MN and we also have the some of best programs around. Many, many people are bending over backwards to help people who cannot or will not help themselves.
Back to the question. I thought years ago you could shoot deer on your property without a license...during season? If you couldn't legally I think it was an "unwritten rule" wasn't it?
Ferny
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Steve Plantz
IDA Field Staff - Steering Committee
Reged: 05/17/01
Posts: 10205
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Loc: SE MN
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Quote:
Back to the question. I thought years ago you could shoot deer on your property without a license...during season?
In MN a land owner can get a free tag without a license at any license agent during the season.
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Steve Plantz ~ IDO Field Staff
Bluffland Whitetails Association
To Let-em Grow You Gotta Let-em Go So SHOOT A DOE!!!
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Timmy
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I'll take it an unpopular step further......In my eyes, the major difference is a combination of utilization and need. If somebody takes an extra fish, deer, grouse, etc.....on occasion and actually uses/appreciates the resource, I am not calling the fish cops on him. That 17-1/8 inch walleye, or that limit of crappies or grouse when there are already some in the freezer at home, etc.... are not the end of the world.
I have a ton of problems with people that kill their legal animal and then waste it. I personally know a few guys that throw out packages of venison every year to make room when they shoot another. They are not breaking any laws, because it is not against the law to throw out spoiled meat from your freezer, but in my eyes they are a helluva lot worse than the guy that shot a doe at the birdfeeder from his kitchen window in December and actually ate it.
THe guy that shoots the heck out of the ducks and geese - but does not like to eat them usually falls intot he same category.....shoot them like mad, then try to give as many away as possible......make a batch or two of jerky...then the rest goes intot he freezer, then the trash. In my opinion, this is horrid - and a way worse offense than the guy that utilizes an "illegal" critter now and then.
Tim
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You can lead a horticulture, but you can't make her think.
Edited by Timmy (11/24/08 07:50 AM)
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Walleyebuster5
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Sell ten acres of that 1,000 (990 remaining) for 20k. Buy 15 cows and butcher them. Eat for 5 years and figure something out during that time. I exaggerate to prove my point. 
Both sides on this argument, I don't know there's a right or wrong opinion. However, I do believe in rules. Without rules we'd all be sitting in trees flinging our own crap at each other. Every rule has been put in place because somebody sued somebody or said rule was taken advantage of at some point in time. My gramps did this a lot and I know he needed to do it. Like it was said already, I will not be turning in a guy that needs it to feed his family. Now, if they gave out tags for me to cork a doe, gut it, drag it out, skin it, cut it, package it and deliver to the guys doorstep I would gladly do it for him and pay for the tag.
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-The more you know, the more you want to know-
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