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KootyAdministrator
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22-250 Optics
#714168 - 11/29/12 06:14 PM

So, I've got my rifle found, Savage Axis in 22-250. I'll get the rifle basix trigger ordered soon. Now, I need a scope. Budget is low for this purchase. Someday I hope to upgrade to a nice Burris like I put on my 25.06. However, it's just not in the cards right now.

So, I'm looking for something in the 4-16 or even 6-24 power. However, here is where my dilema comes in. Should I spend the same money on a slightly better quality 3-9x40 or get a cheaper 6-24x4x knowing I'll be upgrading in the next few years.

Either way I'm spending the same money roughtly. What do you guys think?

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coletrain01
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Re: 22-250 Optics new [Re: Kooty]
#714171 - 11/29/12 06:49 PM

I was thinking about a decent 4x12 for mine. Don't think I would need much more realistically

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KootyAdministrator
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Re: 22-250 Optics new [Re: coletrain01]
#714173 - 11/29/12 07:36 PM

I'll be hunting in SD so it's realistic to take 4-500 yard shots at yotes. So I was leaning towards the 24 power. However, I'll also be using this gun in Mn so maybe a 4-12 is all I need.

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TheFamousGrouse
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Re: 22-250 Optics new [Re: Kooty]
#714179 - 11/29/12 08:48 PM

As you both probably know, you cannot beat the system with optics. Especially, with high-magnification scopes. Good and cheap are mutually exclusive terms because the cost of high quality glass is the combination of the extreme cost of the material and the extreme cost of the equipment used to make the lenses. Therefore, you can have one of the two.

So can you get pretty good and relatively cheap? I think you can.


Simmons Whitetail Classic 6.5x20. If you want to go up to 20+ power, here's the one. Get one of these while you still can, because they are no longer in production:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/746570/simmons-whitetail-classic-rifle-scope-65-20x-50mm-adjustable-objective-truplex-reticle-matte

I have this scope on a .22-250 Tikka. Is it a Zeiss in Simmons clothing? Hell no. But it actually does have perfectly reasonable optics and several hundred pasture poodles have found out that it is at least good enough to whack them up to 450 yards.

Kootie, one thing I will ask is have you used a 20+ power rifle scope for actual game hunting? Personally, I find above 16 power, the field of view is so limiting as to be impractical. It's just so hard to acquire and track the target and at 20 power, your first shot will be your only shot at a coyote because once you shoot and he runs, you won't be able to find him in the scope again at the high magnification for a second shot.

Also, there is the obvious issue of heat shimmer, which I'm sure you're well aware of. Not as much of an issue in the cool months, but for summer it takes high mag settings off the menu.

Now to coletrain.

First, I'd say if you're willing to go with a 3x9, this is the deal of the century: Minox Zv series. You can even get BDC reticle for a few $ more. $159 is almost stealing this scope.

http://www.opticsplanet.com/minox-zv-3-3-9x40mm-rifle-scope.html

While Minox won't say where the optics in the Zv series are made, the optics in all other Minox scopes are made by the German optics company Schott. Even if the optics in the Zv series are NOT Schott, Minox doesn't make anything less than stellar IMO, so while I haven't used this scope on a rifle, I can't see a German company suddenly adding one bad riflescope to what is an otherwise all-primo lineup.

BTW, if you're interested in the break-the-bank Minox, take a gander here: http://www.opticsplanet.com/minox-za-5-3-15x50-riflescope-w-side-focus-parallax-adjustment.html

This scope is better than Zeiss models at more than twice the price. All Schott glass makes this scope a bargain relative to any other offering of this quality.

I'd say that in the 4-12 world, nothing that I've seen will beat the Leupold Rifleman 4x12 or for a little more, the Leupold VX-1 4x12. The Rifleman runs about $249 and the VX-1 is generally about $300.

If you watch Cabela's and get their coupons, you will often see them run $20 off orders of $150 or more and the like. Worth watching for if you aren't in a hurry. I have the VX-1 on my .243. Optics are fantastic.

Grouse


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HookNfinger
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Re: 22-250 Optics new [Re: Kooty]
#714185 - 11/30/12 04:38 AM

Redfield is made by leupold. Nice scopes for the money.

Check out vortex. They are more then you want to spend for their higher end models but i have been super happy with mine. If i can ever sell the nikon monarch on my 22-250 ill be adding one more vortex to my collection

If you want to try it out let me know. Its a 4x16x30mm vortex viper pst


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coletrain01
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Re: 22-250 Optics new [Re: HookNfinger]
#714186 - 11/30/12 05:09 AM

Good info thanks guys. I'm gonna stop at 4 seasons after work today and see what they have in stock

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Randy Wieland
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Re: 22-250 Optics new [Re: coletrain01]
#714195 - 11/30/12 06:35 AM

Kooty, you obviously know my thoughts on glass and tube construction (Burris all the way!!!), so I'll skip past that.
I have two Howa 1500,s set up in 22-250 that I use for outfitting. One has the Burris XTR 4-16 and the other has the Burris XTR 6-24. Both high end and outside of many budgets. That aside, I look more specificly as to how I use each rifle. Around here, I get into a lot of land that has high level of pressure and competition for coyotes. By the end of Jan, every farm has had dogs running it, others calling, plus the guys running rabbits,.... It has become very common here to have a song dog pop out into a field at 500-600 yards, take a look, and trot into 300 yrds. There, they'll sit down and bark at you. Obviously a highly educated dog. That is where my 6-24 really is worth its weight in pelts! Guys that normally have never taken a 400 yrd shot in their life can lay down, zoom in, and make that one shot kill.
However, the down side of it is the minimal 6X. Having a coyote pop out at 65 yrds can make it very challenging to get it in the field of view. My "goto" has been and most likely will always be my 4-16. That little extra view at closer ranges has been the difference on sealing the deal in closer ranges.

Given your location and frequent trips west, the long term for you may be very benificial to have something that will be in that 20-24X on the high end. When I shooting P/dogs out to 500yrds, I really wish I had that 24X in lieu of the 16X with me.
History generally repeats itself, and I see most guys get a scope and very seldom change it. With your enthusiasm for shooting, you most likely will be the exception to that rule. If your looking for a band aid scope, consider 2 things. Will you use it on another rifle you currently have? Do you want to sell it and recover some of your investment? My little Marlin 22lr has seen some unique scopes on it over the years! But i have also sold a lot of used scope on different forums and ebay. Generically, about 40% recovery has been my experience with used scopes if your looking to sell it later. Sometimes more, sometimes less. A 3x9 will be much less that what you'll want on that nail driver. Definitely look for something 4-12 or higher.
I had a Simmonds 4-12 on a 270 for awhile. For a $80 scope, I got my use out of it. Ran it for two years, then upgraded to burris. Wasn't the clearest and didn't have the best light transmition, but for that price point, I didn't loose much. I sold it for 40 or 50 bucks at 4 years old...after migrating to my .22lr.
I think if you just into a lower mid-grade scope you fall into the dilemma of keeping it or trading up. Lower end will help you make that decision later!
BTW, how's that E1 work'n out?

1354279045_DSCN5295.JPG


--------------------
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KootyAdministrator
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Re: 22-250 Optics new [Re: Randy Wieland]
#714199 - 11/30/12 09:42 AM

Thanks all for the info. I knew I could count and Randy and Jay for detailed information.

Randy, The E1 is AWESOME. I had it out in the field last week watching for yotes. Never saw a dog, but was able to "pull up" on several deer and zoom in for the old man. Low light, simply awesome. My first kill will be on a wolf this winter.:o So far the paper doesn't lie. It, along with the Axis like each other.

--------------------

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IDO Management
john.kutz@in-depthoutdoors.com




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KootyAdministrator
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Re: 22-250 Optics new [Re: TheFamousGrouse]
#714218 - 12/01/12 07:13 AM

Quote:

Kootie, one thing I will ask is have you used a 20+ power rifle scope for actual game hunting? Personally, I find above 16 power, the field of view is so limiting as to be impractical. It's just so hard to acquire and track the target and at 20 power, your first shot will be your only shot at a coyote because once you shoot and he runs, you won't be able to find him in the scope again at the high magnification for a second shot.




So I've thought about this a lot and I think this is a very valuable question. I have NOT ever hunted with optics of this magnification. Heck, growing up I was lucky to spend $100.00 on a scope. Everything I ever had was cheap Tasco scopes. Not nocking them, they probably killed more stuff on this planet than any other manufacture.

After thinking about this specifically and consulting with a buddy who I trust also. I'm going to go with something in the 4-18 range.

Scopes I'm considering:

Leaning towards this scope for price and getting the 4.5-18 range of magnification. Simmons is also offering another 20% discount also. So this scope is really reasonably priced. Predator Quest

Probably my last choice because I want more magnification.
Rifleman

This scope is nice but pushing my budget limit.
Revenge

Simply out of my budget range, but another nice scope.
Viper

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John "Kooty" Kutz
IDO Management
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coletrain01
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Re: 22-250 Optics new [Re: Kooty]
#714219 - 12/01/12 08:17 AM

I looked at the revenge with the adjustable yardage. Personally I didn't care for it. It seemed like a lot of adjusting and would take a little time to do all that while hunting

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Randy Wieland
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Re: 22-250 Optics new [Re: Kooty]
#714222 - 12/01/12 09:10 AM

Quote:

Thanks all for the info. I knew I could count and Randy and Jay for detailed information.

Randy, The E1 is AWESOME. I had it out in the field last week watching for yotes. Never saw a dog, but was able to "pull up" on several deer and zoom in for the old man. Low light, simply awesome. My first kill will be on a wolf this winter.:o So far the paper doesn't lie. It, along with the Axis like each other.




Kooty, If you wouldn't mind....and provided you seal the deal on your wolf I would love to use a picture of you,your dog, and the rifle/scope as a title screen in my PP presentation seminar at Cabelas in March.

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KootyAdministrator
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Re: 22-250 Optics new [Re: Randy Wieland]
#714224 - 12/01/12 10:04 AM

If.... WHEN I close the deal of course.

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TheFamousGrouse
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Re: 22-250 Optics new [Re: Kooty]
#714252 - 12/02/12 02:58 PM

Quote:


After thinking about this specifically and consulting with a buddy who I trust also. I'm going to go with something in the 4-18 range.

Scopes I'm considering:

Leaning towards this scope for price and getting the 4.5-18 range of magnification. Simmons is also offering another 20% discount also. So this scope is really reasonably priced. Predator Quest






Kooty, I have the Predator Quest scope (in it's non-PQ-branded iteration) and the Whitetail Classic scope. As strange as this is going to sound, I think the Whitetail Classic is a better scope even though it costs less.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/746570/simmons-whitetail-classic-rifle-scope-65-20x-50mm-adjustable-objective-truplex-reticle-matte

Midway is currently the only company, of the places I frequent anyway, that seems to still have them in stock.

Even if you ordered both scopes from Midway and returned the one you didn't like, I think it would be worth it.

This is the problem with higher magnification, once you cross the 10x line, lower cost optinos with reasonable optical quality, become VERY scarce.

If you threw another C note at the problem, the picture changes dramatically, but essentially at the circa $200 level, you're trying to defy the laws of physics by getting both good and cheap.

Grouse


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KootyAdministrator
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Re: 22-250 Optics new [Re: TheFamousGrouse]
#714286 - 12/03/12 11:12 AM

I'm going to see if I can head to a store and see both first hand. Might be hard to find the classic though.

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IDO Management
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